In conversation with Jacqui Smith, first ever Female Home Secretary

In this candid interview Debbie talks with Jacqui about the behind the scenes life in high office, a spectacular fall from grace, and the path to a whole new career in public leadership as chair of the largest NHS Trust in England and as an award winning podcaster.

We delve into courage, vulnerability and agree on Madeleine Albright’s wise words “There’s a special place in hell for women who don’t help other women”.

Jacqui has great advice and insights on how to get up again when everything falls apart - she sure is a master of this. And of course we meander off into finding love again in midlife, third act careers and the importance of the afternoon nap.